--- Log opened Wed Nov 03 15:57:25 2004
15:58 -!- xiphlog [~giles@140.211.166.32] has joined #xiphmeet
15:58 -!- Topic for #xiphmeet: Welcome to the Xiph.org meeting and discussion channel | current meeting agenda at http://wiki.xiph.org/MonthlyMeeting200411
15:58 -!- Topic set by rillian [] [Wed Nov  3 15:48:14 2004]
15:58 [Users #xiphmeet]
15:58 [ adiabatic ] [ derf_ ] [ MikeS   ] [ philk   ] [ vanguardist] 
15:58 [ Antares   ] [ Emmett] [ Misirlou] [ rillian ] [ xiphlog    ] 
15:58 [ dassvinkel] [ j^    ] [ nessy   ] [ rjamorim] 
15:58 -!- Irssi: #xiphmeet: Total of 14 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 14 normal]
15:58 -!- Channel #xiphmeet created Mon Oct 11 23:06:00 2004
15:58 -!- [freenode-info] help freenode weed out clonebots, please register your IRC nick and auto-identify: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
15:58 -!- Irssi: Join to #xiphmeet was synced in 2 secs
15:58 -!- rillian changed the topic of #xiphmeet to: Welcome to the Xiph.org meeting and discussion channel | current meeting agenda at http://wiki.xiph.org/MonthlyMeeting200411 | live log at http://westfish.xiph.org/~giles/200411_meeting.txt for those joining us late
16:00 < rillian> Ok, we're missing a few people
16:01 < rillian> but might as well get started
16:01 < rillian> first, let me appologize for the time confusion
16:01 < rillian> the wiki didn't match the topic I set here
16:01 < rillian> and I didn't notice until just now
16:01 < rillian> so if there was another monthly meeting 12 hours ago, someone please post a log :)
16:02 < Emmett> :)
16:02 < rillian> First item on the agenda is a financial report
16:02 < rillian> is the person who asked for that here?
16:02  * Emmett raises his hand
16:03 -!- thesaint_ [~crfm@evrtwa1-ar15-4-65-236-112.evrtwa1.dsl-verizon.net] has joined #xiphmeet
16:03 < rillian> Our general policy is not to publish the financial data
16:03 < rillian> but we're happy to answer specific questions in private
16:03 < rillian> generally we're doing ok
16:03 < rillian> with good numbers of personal donations coming in
16:04 < rillian> enough to pay for some small things
16:04 < rillian> but nothing like enough to support anyone so far
16:04 < Emmett> Is the Xiph.Org Foundation not a 501(c)3 non-profit organization?
16:04 < rillian> indeed it is
16:05 < Emmett> When will detailed financial information be released to the public?
16:05 < rillian> I told you our policy
16:05 < Emmett> After all, it was promised in meeting minutes well over a year ago, and it has never appeared.
16:05 < rillian> based on legal advice
16:05 < rillian> if you want the tax records, you can request those from the irs
16:06 < Emmett> Please indicate where your attorneys may be reached in order to clarify this information.
16:06 < rillian> anything else related to the financial stuff?
16:06 < rillian> (and thanks to everyone who's been donating!)
16:06 < Emmett> See above.
16:06 < adiabatic> I'd like to indicate that I'm interested what Emmett is.
16:07 < Emmett> (Rillian is talking to me privately.)
16:07 < adiabatic> Ah.
16:07 < Emmett> <rillian> Jack mentioned you were asking about royalties
16:07 < Emmett> <rillian> if you mean the ashampoo thing
16:07 < Emmett> <rillian> I don't believe they've paid us anything in almost 2 years
16:07 < Emmett> <Emmett> I did not agree to speak with you privately.
16:07 < Emmett> <rillian> then talk to the board
16:08 < rillian> Ok, next is project updates
16:08 < rillian> nothing much new with theora
16:08 -!- mau [~chatzilla@c9065884.virtua.com.br] has joined #xiphmeet
16:08 < rillian> derf's made some bug fixes on his encoder
16:08 < rillian> hi mau!
16:08 < Emmett> Please indicate where the board may be reached, as well as where the organization's legal team may be contacted.
16:08 < mau> hi, it has been a long time...
16:08 < rillian> I've not had time to work on much
16:09 < rillian> Jack and I gave talks at openweekend.cz in prague
16:09 < rillian> MikeS: what's new with icecast?
16:09 < MikeS> icecast: we're headed towards 2.1, with recent releases (thanks to karlH and oddsock, who are doing all the real work here!) of 2.1rc1 and 2.1rc2, I expect we'll do 2.1 final in a week or so. 
16:09 < Emmett> rillian: Please answer my questions.
16:09 < Emmett> Or at the very least, state that you will not answer them.
16:10 < MikeS> There have been ongoing discussions about the suckiness of the flash player, and how we might work around its bugs so that people can play icecast streams with flash
16:11 < rillian> Emmett: http://xiph.org/contact/ gives contact information for several of the core foundation memembers, including Jack and Monty who are board members, and a legal contact
16:11 < MikeS> The final trigger for actually doing 2.1 was another security hole. It's hard (at worst. It might not even be possible) to exploit, so we didn't do this as a matter of extreme urgency. 
16:11 < Emmett> rillian: Who should be contacted in the event that the board and legal contact are unresponsive?
16:11 < adiabatic> rillian: How is he supposed to contact the board when only 3/5 of the people on the board are there?
16:12 < adiabatic> There isn't any contact information for Patrick or the Other Mike there.
16:13 < rillian> adiabatic: so look them up. please don't disrupt the meeting.
16:13 < adiabatic> Where might I look them up, if I'm unsure of their names?
16:13 < rillian> MikeS: so it's easier to do 2.1 to resolve it than another point release
16:13 -!- xiphmont [~xiphmont@69.25.77.51] has joined #xiphmeet
16:13 < xiphmont> hi
16:13 < rillian> hi monty, glad you could make it
16:14 < MikeS> rillian: we could have done a point release, but we were basically ready to do 2.1 anyway. And a point release would just be more version churn. Since the exploit would only be possible through the (password-protected) admin interface, we considered it sufficiently low-risk to not require an Insta-Patch.
16:15 < rillian> sounds fair
16:15 < rillian> I saw you have and rc2 out
16:15 < rillian> how are things looking for a final release
16:15 < rillian> and what are the new features?
16:16 < Emmett> You're going to have to pardon me for a moment here. You seem to have entirely avoided a number of simple questions from myself and adiabatic. Are we to assume that the organization has no comment on them?
16:17 < MikeS> This email (announcing 2.1rc2) has a good summary of the 2.1 new features: Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20041029160408.04cb51d0@www.oddsock.org>
16:17 < j^> rillian New features for 2.1 (in no particular order) http://svn.xiph.org/icecast/trunk/icecast/NEWS
16:18 < MikeS> I'd give a list-archives link, but due to the recent dns changes I can't resolve the appropriate host today, sorry :(
16:18 < xiphmont> Catching up on logs
16:18 < rillian> for the record, it's http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/icecast/2004-October/007793.html
16:18 < MikeS> oh, hey, we have a NEWS file! :-)
16:18 < rillian> hehe
16:18 < rillian> ok, thanks
16:19 < rillian> still no theora suppor?
16:19 < Emmett> I think it's awesome that it's been inferred that I'm looking for money. I'm not. Anything that I was owed by Xiph should have been donated back to Xiph. I would have more details on this, but I was never given a receipt even though I inquired about one on at least eight occasions.
16:19 < derf_> MikeS: lists.xiph.org          A       140.211.166.32
16:19 < MikeS> rillian: not in mainline. Karl's branch has it. 
16:19 < rillian> ok.
16:20 < MikeS> but we're trying to keep 2.1 to well-tested stable features, as a "you definately want this" type upgrade. 
16:20 < Emmett> If you have no comment, tell me you have no comment.
16:20 < rillian> (westfish's ip changed so some people's dns is still propagating)
16:20 < MikeS> derf_: thanks
16:21 < rillian> jean-marc isn't here, but I don't think there's much new there
16:21 < rillian> j^ was kind enough to install trac for us
16:21 < rillian> so if you want to experiment with that
16:21 < rillian> try trac.xiph.org
16:22 < rillian> it probably won't replace bugs.xiph.org until we get a all the bugs moved from the old database
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16:22 < rillian> but the timeline view of svn is worth it all on its own :)
16:22 < rillian> The other new project we have is a push to get real RTP payload formats defined
16:22 -!- thesaint [~crfm@evrtwa1-ar15-4-65-236-112.evrtwa1.dsl-verizon.net] has joined #xiphmeet
16:22 < rillian> there's a new xiph-rtp mailing list for the effort
16:23 < rillian> philk has graciously agreed to manage things
16:23 < rillian> philk: anything you'd like to say on the project?
16:23 < MikeS> oh, that reminds me... I have some questions for j^ about the wiki, but I guess those don't need to be handled during the meeting
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16:23 < philk> so far i'm seeing if it's possible to get chaining working
16:23 < philk> as this is a good feature
16:24 < philk> if not then i think we can go for a static codebook for the session
16:24 < philk> then if everyone on the list is ok the I-D will be submitted to the IETF
16:26 < rillian> that's the general plan
16:26 < rillian> we'd hoped to avoid chaining althogether, but Aaron Colwell has argued for it
16:27 < rillian> nessy: anything new with your stuff?
16:27 < MikeS> I think it's worth noting that, though, that in practice most streams won't use (or won't need, at least) chaining. It's still useful, and I think it's worth trying to get it in... but if it's too hard I'd not be totally against dropping it
16:28 < philk> Agreed Mike.
16:28 < rillian> I agree with jack's suggestion that because of that it is in fact *not* worth getting in
16:28 < rillian> but that's why we're discussing it :)
16:28 < MikeS> yeah, ok. 
16:28 < rillian> oh, vanguardist has been working on a demo cd
16:29 < rillian> with players and creative commons-licensed content in our formats
16:29 < MikeS> I think the big point in favour of it is that it'll end up being MUCH more useful for other things (like theora), and since the complexity will be needed there... why not figure out how to do it early on?
16:29 < rillian> an alpha image we handed out in prague is available at http://people.xiph.org/~vanguardist/ if anyone wants to have a look
16:29 < derf_> I'd like to second that argument.
16:30 < rillian> vanguardist: I think the conclusion was we need binary players, and should take some flacs off to make the room
16:30 < philk> what is the base for the CD, Knoppix?
16:30 < rillian> right now it's just data
16:30 < rillian> a live cd is another nice idea
16:31 < philk> Ok, I have my own Live Dist which can be re-tooled for Xiph
16:31 < philk> plus24.com/m-dist
16:31 < rillian> cool
16:32 < rillian> one problem with live cds is you need one for every architecture
16:32 < philk> True, but x86 covers quite a lot of the market :)
16:32 < rillian> vanguardist: did you have any comments?
16:32 < rillian> indeed it does
16:33 < j^> for alivecd morphix should be used.
16:33 < vanguardist> still waiting on the speex files, then we'd be mostly set
16:34 < rillian> j^: that's a better base than knoppix?
16:34 < rillian> I guess hardware support would be more important for this than the low latency stuff
16:35 < rillian> xiphmont: any project updates from you?
16:35 < j^> rillian its based on knoppix, but designed to be morphed. with some nice tools to customize.
16:35 < xiphmont> yah
16:35 < xiphmont> Two major things:
16:35 < rillian> j^: ok, thanks for the pointer
16:35 < xiphmont> The marketing material work is ongoing.
16:36 < xiphmont> Second: Vanguardist: I'm accumulating your recordings.  Most of them are done, but apparently Steph has been out recruiting now people to read :-)
16:36 < vanguardist> cool
16:37 < rillian> (for those wondering, xiphmont is coordinating an effort to get readings in speex format for the demo cd)
16:37 < xiphmont> I can send you raw recordings, edits, processed edits, whatever you want.
16:38 < xiphmont> I assume you want edits with limiting/compression in raw form.
16:38 < vanguardist> yep
16:38 < rillian> note the van: use the mastered edits, but make him send you the raw stuff too :)
16:38 < vanguardist> heh
16:39 < vanguardist> well you can send it all edited
16:39 < vanguardist> i just plan on encoding :)
16:39 < vanguardist> you're the producer
16:42 < rillian> xiphmont: ok. send *me* the raw stuff when you're done :-)
16:42 < rillian> anyway, that brings us to the end of our agenda
16:42 < rillian> anyone have any other issues?
16:43 < rillian> if not I move we adjourn
16:43 < derf_> Seconded.
16:43 < rillian> Ok, thanks everyone for coming!
--- Log closed Wed Nov 03 16:43:49 2004