--- Log opened Wed Oct 06 16:58:13 2004
16:58 < rillian> hello, world.
16:59 -!- J_Bullet [~jbullet@213.137.0.193] has joined #xiphmeet
17:00 -!- rillian changed the topic of #xiphmeet to: Welcome to the Xiph.org meeting and discussion channel | October MonthlyMeeting in progress. Agenda at http://wiki.xiph.org/MonthlyMeeting200410 live log at http://westfish.xiph.org/~giles/200410_meeting.txt for those joining us late.
17:00 -!- kfish [~conrad@238.suh52.nycm.n54ny31ur.dsl.att.net] has joined #xiphmeet
17:01 < kfish> hi
17:01 < kfish> monty, ozone and i are at dinner atm :-/
17:01 -!- MikeS [~msmith@CPE-144-137-35-56.vic.bigpond.net.au] has joined #xiphmeet
17:01 < rillian> hi mike
17:01 < rillian> kfish, and only one terminal between you? :)
17:01 < MikeS> hi
17:01 < kfish> well, and we haven't been served yet
17:02 < kfish> i think the others have laptops with them (the place has wireless)
17:02 < rillian> plenty of time then
17:02 < rillian> would be good if at least monty attended
17:02 < kfish> no, we're waiting for our orders
17:02 < kfish> hihi, is monty
17:03 -!- kfish is now known as boxofpurpleducks
17:03 < rillian> doppelganger!
17:03 < rillian> ok. I'm not expecting much attendence, so we might as well begin
17:03 < rillian> Monty is our new Executive Director
17:03 < boxofpurpleducks> let's do so
17:04 < boxofpurpleducks> For the time being, yes :-)
17:04 < rillian> 'replacing' jack, at least as far as titles go
17:04 < rillian> so send admin/press stuff to him
17:04 < J_Bullet> congrats monty
17:04 < boxofpurpleducks> congrats, "Ha" :-)
17:04 < rillian> he's also been working with melissa on a new site design and identity we've commissioned
17:05 < rillian> boxofpurpleducks, anything to report on that?
17:05 < boxofpurpleducks> As an update, that was stalled briefly by her work machine dying.  Apple got it back over the weekend.
17:05 -!- myidiym [~myidiym@24-50-62-182.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined #xiphmeet
17:05 < boxofpurpleducks> She's working on branding and logos first.
17:06 < boxofpurpleducks> In addition, we're updating the press materials we already have.
17:06 < boxofpurpleducks> that's about it.
17:06 < rillian> yay
17:06 < rillian> that's it for the announcements I have
17:06 < rillian> first item on the agenda is the bounties
17:07 < rillian> j^ suggested we emulate gnome and a number of other projects
17:07 < rillian> and offer bounties for work we're having trouble getting done by volunteers
17:07 < rillian> which is a stellar idea
17:07 < rillian> basic outline of proposed projects is at http://wiki.xiph.org/Bounties
17:08 < rillian> we don't have the cash the Gnome Foundation does
17:08 < rillian> but the idea was we could at least seed each one with something in the $10 to $100 rangs
17:08 < rillian> range
17:08 < rillian> and let people contribute to the pots if they want
17:08 < J_Bullet> that's a great idea
17:08 < rillian> there was some discussion of the mechanics on the vorbis list last week
17:09 < J_Bullet> there are some companies I know that might contribute
17:09 < rillian> J_Bullet, that would be great. send them monty's way!
17:09 < rillian> any comments or suggestions on that?
17:10 < rillian> ok. on to the project reports
17:10 < MikeS> Seems like a good idea. 
17:10 < rillian> I've done a little work on the reference library with some api additions
17:10 < rillian> but nothing exciting
17:10 < rillian> MikeS, I think it's way smart
17:10 < MikeS> There are probably more projects we could add to it (though I can't think of any good ones off the top of my head)
17:10 < rillian> we've been wanting things like the quicktime plugins for years
17:11 < rillian> If you do think of other things, propose them on the wiki page
17:11 < MikeS> yeah. The obvious problem is that the reason they haven't been written is because they're _really hard_, so I'm not sure small amounts of money will make much difference - but it's worth a try, and doesn't cost us anything if people DON'T do it
17:11 < rillian> Wim Taymans from Fluendo contributed some mmx optimizations for the reference theora encoder which really sped things up. they're on the theora-mmx branch at the moment
17:12 < derf_> The only issue that concerns me is that you might alienate existing volunteers who are not getting paid.
17:12 < rillian> also realplayer 10.0.1 shipped with ogg vorbis and theora support, at least on linux
17:12 < rillian> and we've had some great content posted in theora
17:12 < derf_> i.e., QT plugins are certainly no more difficult than DirectShow ones, and illiminable isn't getting anything for writing them.
17:12 < rillian> so things are going well for adoption
17:13 < rillian> derf_, well, established volunteers are welcome to claim the bounties too
17:13 < rillian> one might argue that they have the advantage of familiarity with the source
17:13 < derf_> I suppose that is true.
17:14 < rillian> I release libogg 1.1.2 after monty's very prompt fixing of bugs
17:14 -!- gshang [geoff@144.136.157.43] has joined #xiphmeet
17:15 < rillian> and libvorbis 1.1.0 is finally out
17:15 -!- jmspeex [~jmspeex@h069176.v6pc245.miako.net] has joined #xiphmeet
17:15 < rillian> with the new encoder tunings and bitrate management support
17:15 < jmspeex> hi, just woke up :-)
17:15 < rillian> we still need a vorbis-tools release
17:15 < boxofpurpleducks> I also fixed a lump of Postfish bugs; it will see release someday not too distant.
17:15 < rillian> and a win32 sdk that's confirmed good
17:15 < rillian> boxofpurpleducks, cool
17:15 < rillian> jmspeex, morning!
17:16 < rillian> what's new with speex?
17:16 -!- gshang [geoff@144.136.157.43] has quit [SendQ exceeded]
17:17 < rillian> in the meantime, on the sysadmin front, I haven't installed trac
17:17 < rillian> though I've using it for a private project and quite liking it
17:17 < rillian> has some rough edges still, but looks very promising
17:18 < jmspeex> Not much new with Speex. I'd like to revive the RTP I-D
17:18 < rillian> oh right
17:18 < rillian> we're also reviving the RTP I-D for vorbis
17:18 < jmspeex> Also, I still have this idea of having the basics for a good quality VoIP app (that others could copy).
17:18 < rillian> and want to start one for Theora
17:18 < jmspeex> But I'd need some help from someone who knows networking
17:19 < rillian> we may have some funding for that as well, so if anyone's interested in working on the RTP payload specs, please contact me
17:19 < rillian> jmspeex, yes, that would be a good project
17:19 < jmspeex> (BTW, I'm still on this crappy network, so if I don't respond at some point, it may just be because I got kicked out by the VPN)
17:19 < rillian> perhaps not unrelated
17:19 < rillian> (jmspeex: ok, thanks :()
17:20 < rillian> also sysadmin related, a couple of you have accounts under people.xiph.org
17:20 < rillian> boxofpurpleducks, were you ever going to restore that stuff?
17:21 < boxofpurpleducks> I gave copies to Jack; my own connection doesn't stay up long enough to transfer.
17:21 < boxofpurpleducks> I can try more intelligently.
17:21 < rillian> or try leaning on jack
17:21 < rillian> he's not uploaded any of it that I know
17:21 < rillian> the wiki at least, is repairing itself nicely
17:21 < rillian> though we've had some trouble with spambots
17:22 < boxofpurpleducks> Give me specific dirs to get first; I'll do that as a first cut.
17:22 < rillian> thanks to everyone (MikeS) who has helped keep it clean
17:22 < boxofpurpleducks> Yes,  the Audacity wiki got flattened by Chinese spam this past week.
17:22 < rillian> boxofpurpleducks, the xiphmont subdir of the xiph.org webspace was what I was asking about
17:22 < rillian> I don't remember the path to it any more
17:23 < rillian> maybe /www/xiph.org/doc/ ?
17:23 < boxofpurpleducks> Oh, ha.  it was xiph.org/xiphmont
17:23 < boxofpurpleducks> www/www.xiph.org/doc/xiphmont
17:23 < MikeS> (sorry; distracted by work at the moment if anything is being aimed at me)
17:23 < rillian> we'd also like /var/lib/zope so we can restore some of the wiki content
17:24 < boxofpurpleducks> ok
17:24 < boxofpurpleducks> (can you put it in email form?)
17:24 < rillian> will do
17:24 < boxofpurpleducks> Just a list of dirs, nothing fancier.
17:25 < rillian> MikeS, tell us what's new with icecast when you get a chance
17:25 < rillian> vanguardist couldn't attend
17:25 < rillian> but has been working on the demo cd project some more
17:25 < rillian> I've encouraged him to put an iso up so we can all burn some to give away
17:26 < rillian> but the long-range plan is to have a set pressed as marketing material for shows and conferences
17:26 < rillian> he also represented us at a meeting in Florence last month
17:26 < rillian> we've been invited to help out with a new streaming server project there
17:27 < rillian> boxofpurpleducks, myidiym: anything else new organizationally?
17:27 < boxofpurpleducks> no, sorry.
17:27 < rillian> ok. I'
17:27 < boxofpurpleducks> Brain has been eaten by starting new day job.
17:28  * rillian nods
17:28 < MikeS> jmspeex: I can probably help out with networking stuff
17:28 < MikeS> icecast: bugfix releases, minor work towards the next major release. Nothing terribly exciting happening. 
17:29 < rillian> merges from the kh branch still going on? I've mostly seen traffic the other direction lately
17:30 < MikeS> some, slowly. The kh branch has some serious design issues. 
17:30 < jmspeex> MikeS: That would be cool. What I'd like to have is something that works in all conditions, including with NAT.
17:30 < MikeS> (it works, but is going to make maintainability hard in the long term)
17:30 < rillian> ok.
17:30 < MikeS> jmspeex: well... there are limits to what you can do if you have NAT on both ends. 
17:31 < rillian> MikeS, well, ideally you can negotiate whether you need a reflector or not, and if so, which one to use
17:31 < MikeS> but we can talk about this in detail out of the meeting (email, or irc, whatever)
17:31 < boxofpurpleducks> 'auto-root the NAT box.'
17:31 < MikeS> rillian: right
17:31 < rillian> 'speex over dns query'
17:31 < MikeS> but then you have to have infrastructure for reflectors, etc... it becomes hard.
17:32 < jmspeex> MikeS: Worst case, NAT-to-NAT can work through a reflector
17:32 < rillian> which is why it still needs doing :/
17:32 < MikeS> yes. I said "there are limits", not "it's totally impossible to do anything". Anyway, this isn't the place for detailed tech discussion, so we should probably move on for the moment, and jm and I will discuss at some point.
17:33 < jmspeex> Also, I'd prefer a solution that doesn't require TCP (for obvious latency reasons)
17:33 < jmspeex> sure
17:33 < rillian> Josh isn't here (and probably didn't get invited) but we've moved the FLAC mailing lists to xiph.org from sourceforge, and he's working on a new release.
17:33 < MikeS> good news.
17:33 < rillian> yes indeed
17:33 < rillian> next step is to move the source repository
17:33 < MikeS> so flac is moving towards being more of a first-class xiph project?
17:34 < rillian> I hope so
17:34 < rillian> Arc worked with him to improve (and apparenlty completely revise) the Ogg encapsulation for 1.1
17:34 < rillian> I haven't looked at the changes, so that's all I can say about it
17:34 < MikeS> (at the moment it seems more "we like each other and say nice things, but aren't actually associated in any way")
17:34 < MikeS> cool.
17:35 < rillian> as I said, moving the mailing lists was a big step
17:35 < rillian> moving the source to svn.xiph.org is about all that's left
17:35 < MikeS> ok
17:35 < rillian> I need to ping him about that
17:35 < rillian> (unless someone else would like to)
17:35 < rillian> That's everything I have
17:35 < rillian> are there any other issues or news people would like to discuss?
17:36 < boxofpurpleducks> not me.
17:36 < MikeS> I have a quick question on logos:
17:36 < MikeS> we got a request for a vector version of the icecast logo. Does anyone know if such a thing exists?
17:37 < MikeS> Somewhat related, what's our policy on usage of our logos?
17:37 < boxofpurpleducks> It doesn't, but we have large bitmaps.  I meant to respond to that.
17:37 < boxofpurpleducks> They're ours.  If people ask to use them, we usually always say yes.
17:37 < rillian> Our general policy is that use consistent with trademarks is ok
17:37 < rillian> as in 'this is an icecast stream' or 'this contains software from the xiph.org foundation'
17:38 < rillian> but not 'this product is fishy', if you will
17:38 < MikeS> boxofpurpleducks: I couldn't even find large bitmaps. Location?
17:39 < MikeS> I replied off list to say I'd try and track something down.
17:39 < boxofpurpleducks> I made some new ones involved in bumper stickers.
17:39 < MikeS> ah. 
17:39 < boxofpurpleducks> I need to upload them; they're on Snotfish and I've not been home recently.
17:39 < rillian> monty's new ones are quite pretty too
17:39 < boxofpurpleducks> (they're part of large .xcf files)
17:40 < MikeS> ok. Could you do so (whenever's convenient) and drop me an email with the location when you do?
17:41 < boxofpurpleducks> send me a mail; I generate todo list these days primarily from email.
17:41 < MikeS> k
17:41 < rillian> anything else?
17:42  * rillian waits the requisit 90 seconds :)
17:44 -!- myidiym [~myidiym@24-50-62-182.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has left #xiphmeet []
17:44 < boxofpurpleducks> is done.
17:44 < rillian> ok. I move we adjourn
17:44 < boxofpurpleducks> second
17:44  * rillian bangs
17:44 < rillian> thanks everyone for coming!
17:44 < rillian> oh, next meeting
17:44 < rillian> Wednesday november 3rd
17:45 < rillian> there was some talk of going back to alternating times
17:45 < rillian> because this one is too late for the europeans
17:45 < rillian> there was no good consensus
17:45 < rillian> but in the absence of counter-concensus, I propose 12 GMT for the next one
17:45 < rillian> which is quite early for us here on the west coast of North America
17:46 < rillian> but otherwise ok for most
17:47 < MikeS> seems reasonable.
17:47 < MikeS> all done, then?
17:48 < rillian> all done
17:48 < MikeS> thanks for running the meeting rillian; thanks to all for attending.
17:48 < rillian> yes, thanks again
17:48 -!- boxofpurpleducks is now known as kfish
--- Log closed Wed Oct 06 17:48:42 2004